Ray
New Member
Posts:8
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| 04 Jun 2007 09:31 AM |
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Hi Everyone
took our MH out for a drive on Sunday
everything is working good with the exeception of the brakes
the foot pedal has too much travel and is inconsistent when you pump the brakes
would this indicate master cylinder problems or deterioated brake lines
your thoughts are appreciated
the new ramco mirrors work great they are the new tall model with 17.5" mirror height
thanks
Ray |
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Steven T Webster
Site Host
Advanced Member
Posts:665
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| 04 Jun 2007 09:48 AM |
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Ray,
Excessive brake pedal travel would indicate low fluid or air/contaminents in the brakes lines. You are right in that could also have master cylinder or flexible line issues. The solution would be first check the fluid level in the master cylinder. If it is really low then top it up and bleed. If there is still excessive pedal travel then you should bleed the entire system. It's a great idea to replace all four flex hoses before you do this as they detrioriate. I replaced mine along with a new (not rebuilt) master cyclinder and my brakes are terrific now (used to have a lot of travel). |
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Steven Webster
1986 Airstream Classic 345
Host, CampfireClicks.com |
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robfike
New Member
Posts:20
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| 05 Jun 2007 02:31 PM |
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I know it's a real pain to do, but we should all be bleeding our brakes every 2 years. All brake fluids attract moisture. This lowers the boiling point of the fluid, and can cause many problems.
Rob |
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Ray
New Member
Posts:8
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| 17 Jun 2007 05:45 PM |
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Hi everyone
hope your all enjoying summer
does anyone know what the fluid resevoir inside the front compartment is
it is on the right hand side and has a hose running towards the master cylinder
this resevoir has very little fluid in it and I wondered if it was for brake fluid
or do I have take the top off the mastercylinder to check the fluid level
as you can tell I am not very mechcanical
thanks for your help
Ray |
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Steven T Webster
Site Host
Advanced Member
Posts:665
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| 17 Jun 2007 10:17 PM |
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Ray,
Sounds like you power steering fluid remote resevoir. The master cylinder is filled directly be removing the top cover. You can access it through the driver site wheel well. Also, the power steering res is used for both your power steering and brake boost. |
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Steven Webster
1986 Airstream Classic 345
Host, CampfireClicks.com |
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Crenche
New Member
Posts:15
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| 04 Nov 2007 09:19 PM |
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Steven. Tell me how that brake booster works with the power steering. I was looking for a brake booster the other day on my Southwind (P30 chassis) I thought I didn't have one or something was wrong. So is it correct that if you don't have enough power steering fluid you won't have good braking too? I need to find out how to do the rear disk brakes on my Southwind. It does NOT stop well and I want to feel safe in my RV. I know the right side has 3 large gouges in the rotor. I am wondering if it is turnable or if I need to just replace the rotor. How hard is it getting the double wheel off the axle? What size jack should I use? 6 ton? What other advice can you give me to make my brakes awesome! I can guess the obvious such as bleeding and replacing the pads. Any other tweaks on the brakes that i can do?  |
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Steven T Webster
Site Host
Advanced Member
Posts:665
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| 04 Nov 2007 09:45 PM |
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Crenche,
The booster is a "hydroboost" unit - meaning that it uses hydraulic pressure from the hydroboost pump (also the power steering pump) to provide boost pressure on the brake master cylinder. So, yes without power steering you have the bonus of no power brakes too. The idea here is that these chassis are just too heavy to rely on a vacuum assist booster like you would find in a car.
When you say it does not stop well - what do you mean? Do you need to apply a lot of pedal effort to stop? Does the pedal go down far before stopping, is the pedal pressure fine but it just doesn't stop quickly?
A gouge in the rotor is time for replacement. Also, this got there somehow, so I would bet your pads are shit back there. I would use nothing less than a 12 ton bottle jack and 12 ton jackstands for this work.
Brakes on the P30 are a lot like a car's system so if you've replaced/repaired brakes before it will all make sense but if this is your first ever brake job or you not sure about this then take it in to a mechanic as this is not something you can afford to mess up.
If properly setup with good working parts the service brakes should provide adequate braking on your motorhome. It's never going to be a sports car - but it should feel safe and in control under normal and emergency braking conditions.
That said, today on my way home from a cyclocross race I was coming down a one way street when a mercedes turned off the highway and headed the wrong way - right at me. I planted the pedal and stopped the motorhome from 30 mph in no time. I'm glad that I did all that work on my brake systems in the last couple of years. |
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Steven Webster
1986 Airstream Classic 345
Host, CampfireClicks.com |
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Crenche
New Member
Posts:15
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| 04 Nov 2007 10:33 PM |
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When I say the MH is hard to stop, I mean I have to really stomp on the brakes to make it stop. The travel of the pedal seems fine to me. I was figuring I would have to change out the rotor as well as the pads etc. I will figure that in with my estimate when i actually have the money to do that. I am not driving my MH bc it is getting cold and I am still kinda worried about taking it out. I think I need to make sure the brakes are in great shape before going out again. Will invest in a heavy duty bottle jack for the change out. Thanks for the info It is funny because our motor homes are almost identical underneath the skin.  |
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Steven T Webster
Site Host
Advanced Member
Posts:665
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| 05 Nov 2007 07:04 AM |
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You are right about the "bones" of a motorhome. A P30 is a P30 is a P30. Same underneath. It's about the same with systems like generators and refridgerators, etc.
Excessive pedal effort makes me think it's your booster. Double check that you have plenty of power steering fluid in the resevoir. Also, how is the power steering? If it's the pump then both your steering and brakes will require a lot of effort. This is a $60 replacement (but a ton of labor to get it on and off).
If it's just brakes then climb under there and look at the hydroboost unit (driver side in the wheel well just in front of the master cylinder. There should be two hydraulic lines and one rubber line on it. Look for leaks, rust, etc.
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Steven Webster
1986 Airstream Classic 345
Host, CampfireClicks.com |
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Crenche
New Member
Posts:15
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| 05 Nov 2007 09:34 AM |
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I don't see any leaks and my power steering is working. When I first got the thing running It was VERY difficult to turn but it was also very low on fluid. I just attributed it to that. Now it appears to work fine. Maybe it is bad. There is alot of gunk build up around the pump and such but I just attributed that to normal wear and tear. 
By the way. I fill my resivoir (which is full) from the doghouse side. it is a bit more challenging but it is better than climbing under the wheel well.
Is the labor on the hydroboost too difficult for me? Well it doesn't matter really I will tackle it myself anyway. Don't have the cash to have ppl work on my RV. Plus gotta get in there and learn ya know .
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Capt.Dan
Basic Member
Posts:126
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| 05 Nov 2007 11:21 PM |
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Crenche, You will no doubt need to remove the left front tire and the master cylinder is right above where the tire would be. Easy to get at, Just a pain to do! |
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Chuck
New Member
Posts:55
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| 25 Nov 2007 04:18 AM |
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I recently had a shock - after a discussion with a fellow RVer and a retired truck owner/driver to boot! when I related my poor brakes; he said the hydro-boost whilst not the VERY best is still good for the "Heavy Truck" chassis - i.e., the P30.
Last winter I had left the 310 in with a coach company to replace the brake fluid and the front hoses, which I supplied. Yes, when it came back the brakes were better but only just, at least they were not binding (Front hoses were suspected of closing/air). I just assumed that was it! At least it passed the MOT (Annual inspection)
After about 10 months of driving around and after the said conversation I decided to take a look. ...WOW!
The power steering reservoir was full to overflowing, as it was when it returned from the brake shop...BUT the master cylinder on the Hydro-Boost set up was empty!
If you do leave the Airstream to someone else, make sure they are familiar with Hydro-Boost and where the reservoir's are - it is obvious that they filled the power steering with hydraulic brake fluid.......!
Any thoughts on replacing the lot with synthetic brake fluid?
Chuck
Dorset UK |
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'Streaming in the UK is such fun.
Other drivers shocked at what they see; keep letting me go first! |
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Chris
Basic Member
Posts:107
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| 25 Nov 2007 05:55 PM |
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Chuck, if you replace the brake DOT 3 fluid with synthetic DOT 4, you will need to have the complete system flushed to remove any traces of the old DOT 3. If any of it is left in the system, lines, caliper's, divert valve, it will make a mess of the system. They do not mix, and will gum up the system.
On my Harley, they use DOT 4 and I had problems when I first got it. The PO had mixed the rear brake system with DOT 3 and I had to rework the complete rear system. I also flushed the front system to make sure that He had not put any in that as well.
On the P30, it will be quite a lot of work to do, and don't think that you will achieve very much benefit. All tho the synthetic will take high heat, the other benefit used more often is that the DOT will not attack plastic or remove paint! If you was running it on the track, like some of those big truck races you have over there, I don't think you would come close to over heating the DOT 3.
You can use DOT 5 and think that is synthetic blend that will blend ok with DOT 3. Better check that first, going on this old brain of mine!!!!!
You can use synthetic power steering oil. If you use a fluid that can be combined with regular power steering oil. |
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Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.
2 Corinthians 3:17 NIV
http://classicmotorhomesonline.com/Members/tabid/826/PID/9/Default.aspx
Chris & Brenda
1982 310 Airstream
Towin a 98 Saturn SL2 or 96 HD Ultra Classic.
Members of the Christian Motorcyclists Association.
2001 Duramax Crew Cab (Totaled) Powertrain for the 310???
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Chuck
New Member
Posts:55
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| 26 Nov 2007 02:44 AM |
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Thank you Chris for the information. I have both DOT3 & 4 in the workshop but not enough to complete the job. word is that the earlier DOT3 is no longer available here. I will check this out this week.
Chuck
Dorset UK |
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'Streaming in the UK is such fun.
Other drivers shocked at what they see; keep letting me go first! |
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Balrgn
Moderator
Advanced Member
Posts:801
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| 06 Mar 2008 07:06 PM |
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Lost your brakes lately???
I have!!!!!! Just went to pick the Peanut up form storage to go camping tomorrow, drove out and the dash light came on and the pedal went to the floor!
Almost no brakes.... Went over to a friends a few miles away and I found the Master cylinder EMPTY, Whew, could not have been better timing eh?
Filled the reservoir, bled the lines and refilled the reservoir.
They are now better than ever!
I'm Happy  |
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1977 Argosy 20
454 V8 Gas
Southern NH
Maintenance Analyst
www.balrgn.com |
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Steven T Webster
Site Host
Advanced Member
Posts:665
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| 06 Mar 2008 08:08 PM |
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Why do you think they lost that much fluid? |
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Steven Webster
1986 Airstream Classic 345
Host, CampfireClicks.com |
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Balrgn
Moderator
Advanced Member
Posts:801
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| 06 Mar 2008 08:30 PM |
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Not sure, they felt odd, you know pulled a bit to the right when you step on the brake. First hint, I know I should have dealt with it then. I've had evaporation before, not this much... Never saw a drop on the ground. Only other thing I can think, the PO had a shop replace the hoses, must not have been diligent bleed and feeding them. |
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1977 Argosy 20
454 V8 Gas
Southern NH
Maintenance Analyst
www.balrgn.com |
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new-to-rving
New Member
Posts:36
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| 09 Mar 2008 09:54 AM |
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Hey would like to add my 2 cents please,  unbolt the master from the hydro-booster and check for a fluid leak from the primary cylinder in the master, also with a helper, jack the front up and spin the wheels and apply the brake, checking for proper grabbing and releasing of the brakes, the side that pulled when applied was probly the one working correctly, try when brakes cold and hot, if one draggs, check for hose restriction or siezed caliper by loosing the bleeder. if the brake releases with bleeder opened, replace the hose, if not the caliper piston is binding in the bore, I am going to replace my flex lines with stainless braided lines, going to has them made at a local shop that makes hydraulic lines, the steel lines will not expand when applied hot and will help lessen brake fade, they use them in high performance cars. |
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Balrgn
Moderator
Advanced Member
Posts:801
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| 09 Mar 2008 02:47 PM |
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Good advice, right on the mark. Thanks |
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1977 Argosy 20
454 V8 Gas
Southern NH
Maintenance Analyst
www.balrgn.com |
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terry
New Member
Posts:4
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| 14 Dec 2009 10:14 PM |
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havent got to my brakes yet, but from rebuilding my honda goldwing interstate, i cannot more highly recommend speed bleeders, at speedbleeders .com. they work great for one man bleeding and are inexpensive. |
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